Yes Angela, I agree wit you.  However, after our class discussion today, I came to the conclusion that Prufrock is not completely dissapointed with his life.  He is just shy, and nervous and after his "time" with the woman, he realizes that women are not only interested in the physical aspects of life.  I would not consider him self-centered, or having an empty life, I think that he is learning and becoming wiser of the world, as he grows older.

I feel Prufrock, in his youth, was in complete control of both his social and sex life so now that he has aged his insecurities begin to develop. He does not know whether to continue pursueing these women as he did in his youth or give into the realization that he has grown up.

"I grow old . . .I grow old . . .
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.

Shall I part my hair behind?"

I feel that this quote shows that after all his many thoughts and flashbacks instead of continueing to wonder he accepts that he is old. He is decides he will embrace it rather then fight it. (referring to the line " I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled")

I see how he embraces his aging when he says:

Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?
I shall wear white flannel trousers, and walk upon the beach.
I have heard the mermaids singing, each to each.

but he is still questioning himself, showing that he is not able to accept it.  I looked for ideas of eating the peach, because that didn't amke since to me and it can symbollic represent marriage, immortality, or a woman's private parts.  All of these are tings which the speaker has trouble with.  In the far off future, when he parts his hair behind, he still sees himself asking the same questions that he is asking himself presrntly, obviously showing his lack of self- confidence

I feel Prufrock, in his youth, was in complete control of both his social and sex life so now that he has aged his insecurities begin to develop. He does not know whether to continue pursueing these women as he did in his youth or give into the realization that he has grown up.

"I grow old . . .I grow old . . .
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled.

Shall I part my hair behind?"

I feel that this quote shows that after all his many thoughts and flashbacks instead of continueing to wonder he accepts that he is old. He decides he will embrace it rather then fight it. (referring to the line " I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled")

I think Prufroc is talking about his nerves in the part about a magic lantern.  I remember in our literature book the footnotes said that a magic latern was like a slide projector.  He feels as though his nerves are being projected in front of everyone as he anticipates how to say something or if he should say something. He is trying to express his feelings about the worthlessness of his life.  I agree that the last lines could be about the mistakes that he feels he has made because his life seems useless.  Prufrock anticipates how the women will react to his expressions as he says "After the novels, after the teacups, after the skirts that trail along the floor-" (102). He feels as though they will judge him just as they had judged his old age and appearance.

He is asking "Would it have been worth while...To roll it toward some overwhelming question, To say: 'I am Lazarus, come from the dead, Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all'--" (90-95). Just like in the beginning, he asks a question and then never answers it. Something is holding him back from not saying the thing he really wants to say. But we never find out what that question is.

Also, does anyone know what the dots separating stanza 14 and 15 mean? Theres like a series of random dots separating several different stanzas dividing the poem into 4 sections. I have no idea what they are there for, but I do know that they aren't there for decoration. Anyone have any thoughts?

I actually thought he was more trying to be irritatated and say, "you will find out the question! don't ask,"  The question poses as a mystery within the poem which the author knows the answer to. The tone in which he begins off saying 'don't ask...' seems as though he will tell us the answer eventually- or we will 'solve the mystery ' using his clues.

Yes and also i think that the magic lantern is revealing his emotions like his nervousness and insecurities to everyone in the room. He is trying to decide if it is worth it to court a woman and have sex with her. He knows that he will just get rejected in the end and that will only add to his insecurity and low self esteem.   

After the discussion in class today, and although we did not discuss these lines, I feel like I can discuss these lines better.  But I do not understand why he keeps saying 'would it have been worth it' because I thought they did have sex.  Is he just thinking about what might  happen?  I do understand that the questions is part of his uncomfortable and nervous nature.  The magic lantern- my perspective is he either wanted his nerves thrown on the wall so she could see his feelings or she could clearly see his feelings and wasn't sure he was okay with that.  (which one??) 

The novels, teacups, skirts... this is similar to the other lines (79) tea, ice, and cakes; (88) cups, marmalade, tea.  He constantly mentions the atmosphere and learned aura the women carry.  This repetition of topics and parallel syntax seems to really show his uncomfortable and questioning nature. 

I agree with what Julie said.  I think he is questioning whether everything he has done up to this point was even worth what he is expecting the outcome to be.  I think that when he mentions all the material posessions he is relating them back to other things in life, things that are accepted to be so wonderful and fulfilling, that they seem to not actually make him happy and he is wondering if it was all really worth it.

The fourteenth stanza includes variations of concrete imaged of the social world - "After the cups, the marmalade, the tea After the novels, and the teacups, after the skirts that trail along the floor" and abstract images of mermaids later on. Each image has a connotation associated with it such as the novel corresponding to literature. Motonimies are often used in this stanza to force the reader to think of knowledge, social elite and sex. This stanza seems like a pivotal point within the poem becuase T. S. Elliot seems to recap the paragraphs which he has already described previously.

At first I thought that these few lines were complicated as well. When our class had a dissusion about it, we said that it was about the speaker contemplating asking the question and waiting to be rejected. He has built up his confidence until she rolls over and says "..thats not it at all.." 

In lines 101-102 we also see how time is passing (motonomy). In the middle to the end of this section, lines 105-110 he thinks his insecurities are on the screen in front of him.

The last stanzas of the poem continue to discuss Prufrock's insecurity,  "Shall I wear my hair behind?"  He questions whether the mermaids (women) will sing (talk) to him.  It is as though throughout his whole life he has been stuck in the "chambers of the sea."  He has been living in this superficial, empty world and feels as though his life has been worthless.  He says that when one eventually becomes old they will be awaken by "human voices" (or reality), but then will sadly die.  He believes that he has suddenly realized the truth about his useless life, but it is too late to change anything.

I definitely feel that these "mermaids" symbolize real people in society that are so judgemental to the point where it worries Prufrock. There are definate contrasts in the descriptions between the way Prufrock describes himself and the way he describes the mermaids. Before he talks about the mermaids, Eliot writes: "I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled," which contrasts with the mermaids who "[c]omb the white hair of the waves blown back..." Prufrock's description just doesn't compare with the extreme elegance of the mermaids who seem to be these final judges of death. It's like Prufrock feels that he needs to win acceptance from the mermaids or else drown (die) in the water.

I agree with Casey, in that the mermaids symbolize the woman in the society and could very well represent the woman that made the speaker feel so worthless by turning away and saying "that is not what i meant at all." In movies and stuff mermaids tend to be beautiful, vain, and almost untouchable creatures and I think thats wha he's trying to emphasize. A large part of the poem seems to focus on women, and the speaker's eagerness to please them and the mermaids are the perfect figure for this. It says that they are "Combing the white hair of the waves blown back" which gives the same image as the slender fingers from earlier. They are just passing time along with no regard to what they're doing. In the last stanza it says, "

Prufrock knows he is getting old and he can't do anything about it.    He isn't the young man he used to be.  Prufrock gets tied into worrying about what he looks like: "They will say 'How his hair is growing thin!'"   In the end, the quote Dustin used "I grow old...I grow old..."  shows that he is finally realizing that he is getting older.

I love these last couples stanzas. I feel that the "seaweed red and brown" does not just describe the youthful mermaids but follows back up with Prufrock. We have previously seen Prufrock's hair color slowly deteriorating. Who's to say that the colors "red and brown" were not once his hair colors. If they were we could conclude that they used to describe him, but now they can only be considered for the more elegant and lavish women. aka the mermaids.

Any thoughts? Mr. Kent said we can't be wrong. :D

I also believe that time is a relatively important element in the poem that is emphasized by T.S. Eliot. Prufrock obviously spends so much time worrying about his physical appearance such as hiding his balding head and wearing acceptable clothes that he is withering away. The image Eliot creates from: "Though I have seen my head [grown slightly bald] brought in upon a platter..." is very depressing and it reflects the character's persona. Prufrock feels that his life has gone to waste as he keeps questioning himself: "Would it have been worth while..." throughout one of the last stanzas.

Near the end Eliot writes: "I grow old … I grow old …" emphasizing the fact that time is passing by and that he still feels insecure about himself questioning: "Shall I part my hair behind? Do I dare to eat a peach?" Although, it is sad that Prufrock is still insecure, I feel angered at the fact that he still hasn't learned from his experiences and grown out of that stage. It is like he always sees the glass half empty.

time is arguably the most important thematic element in this work simply becuase it is referenced so often. one of my favorite parts is:

Yes, this is what we talked about class. (michael is in my class). I agree, it seems, to me, that Elliot is using a caracter who is obsessed with physical aspects to portray to society the emportance of self-confidence, to a certain extent.  I think that Prufrock is self-conscious, but he is also over-stimulated by his mental attributes.  I think that ellit is trying to portray, that "reality" (the voices) is always there to "drown us" from imagination and bring us back to earth so that we do not get captured by the unimportant parts of life, such as age/.

Time is what Prufrock struggles with throughout the entire poem and how he doesn't think people have used it to their advantage.  I think he also feels regretful that he hasn't accomplished more even and he is constantly reminded of this by his balding head.  He is so restless that it seems like he spontaniously chooses some woman to sleep with with the intention of fullfilling himself and releasing his insecurity, but it only backfires because she rejects him.

It was really interesting to point out the fact that the reference in the begining of the poem to Dante's Inferno ties into the poem in the fact that Prufrock is living in his own version of Hell. Throughout the poem Elliot creates the image of this ageing man, who's actions are somewhat controled by the opinions of those around him, and who is tormented by his indicisive nature. In a sense he is trapped as Lindsay put it, in the sense that death is growing ever closer and he is stuck in monotonous behavior that amounts to no real significance in his opinion.

i struggle with this part too. i thought the narrator truly understood the depth of life and how precious its time is, yet he spends his time with indecisiveness and passivity. he worries over what people will say about  him. to me hie is way to preoccupied with the thoughts of others. he considers himself  very low (like how he dresses conservately).

could somebody explain why someone who seems to value time more than others wastes so much time fretting over his insecurities and possible gossips

haha i like your bit about the retirement, melissa. I was thinking...and I could be totally wrong about this...but the mermaids in the Odyssey made people jump over the edge of the ship and drown...right? Thats just one of the things that I noticed.